Curse

nori nori · Jul 27, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I've been running around in RA/TA as an assassin for a while, trying to come up with an effective build that didn't require AoD+GPS+etc and that would make me an asset rather than a liability (as far as the healers are concerned). Finally, I came up with this:

A/X
Name: Something intimidating and mysterious...maybe "Bloodshadowdeathskull"

Skills:
Iron Palm
Falling Spider
Twisting Fangs
Siphon Speed
Shroud of Silence [elite]
(optional)-I usually take dark escape or a shadow stepping skill
Shadow Refuge
Res Sig

Attributes:
not quite sure what I have here, but it goes something to the effect of
Dagger: 12
Deadly: 15 or 16
Shadow: 6?
Critical: 8

Equipment:
Shrouded Armor
+5 energy dagger
Zealous Tangs
+5 Armor handle

How it works:
I've found that, as most successful assassin players have, that the key strength of the assassin (more than its mobility, which I think is also a major strength) is its ability to quickly disable/kill a single key player of the opposing team. Usually this player is a spell caster of some kind so I decided to give a shroud of silence build a whirl.

The strategy is to wait a few seconds after everyone locks on to their targets, then find the key support player. My list of priorities goes something like (Mo/X, Me/Mo, E/Mo, Me/X, other spell casters, melee). Next, hit them with Siphon Speed to slow them down and set up the iron palm combo. Now you have to do some strategic thinking: either lead off with shroud of silence then go into the iron palm combo, or use IP+FS as an interrupt then immediately cast shroud of silence followed by TF (the target should still be under siphon speed so kiting shouldn't be a problem). If the situation allows, you can stick around to smack the target. Usually by this time you'll have some heat on you so it would be best to high tail it out of there and let someone else on your team finish the job, if all the degen doesn't. Another strategy is to cast siphon speed on a target that probably won't die too quickly (e.g. a ranger) for a solid ~20 sec speed boost -regardless if your main target goes down - allowing you to gracefully exit the fray.

This build freaks out pure casters almost to the point of hilarity. A lot will just stand there, wondering why their spells don't work. This build will also make short work of unsupported wammos by disabling their healing spells (i've been called "gay" and "lame" on multiple occasions by angry wammos.) The down side is that it relies on marginal competence from the rest of your team (i.e. pouncing on that Mo/Me while his spells are disabled) and good kiting skills. There's room for some condition/hex removal in that optional slot, but you will sacrifice mobility for it. Also, there is a lot of down time between shrouds so you need to make sure that each one counts.

Try it out, tell me what you think. Or just flame me.

Lambentviper · Jul 27, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

looks nice...i wanna give it a try and i think i will....once i put some good RA pwnage music on

Sammgus · Jul 28, 2006, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Definitely looks like a good build - was thinking of something similar, but didn't consider IP-combo until I saw your post. Nice work

Evaem Asollan · Jul 28, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

I prefer snares and dmg when using Shroud of Silence. You often can't depend on other people on your team to target the one with Silence on them. So I bring these skills so I can snare and take out a big chunk, if not kill them:

Leaping Mantis Sting (or Black Mantis Thrust)
Jungle Strike
Twisting Fangs
Black Lotus Strike
Blades of Steel

or another build I use is this:

Mark of Instability
Black Lotus Strike
Twisting Fangs
Falling Spider
Blades of Steel

nori nori · Jul 28, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

I've considered using longer attack chains for more damage and snaring, but I've found that without a self heal and some kind of escape skill, the build becomes too fragile. Well, too fragile as far as my kiting skills are concerned.

Usually the IP + FS + TF combo can drop a squishy down to less than half health and will kill it with the subsequent health degen provided that it doesn't have a lot of regen enchantments/skills active. Not quite sure of the numbers, but just IP and FS does something to the tune of 80 damage.

Also, you can cast siphon speed on two different foes to get a 33% speed boost, which combined with your target's -20% speed debuff should keep you on his ass for the duration of the silence, or allow you to escape any would be pursuers long enough for your IP to recharge. Then you can turn around and punish anyone giving chase.

more flames, please!

LuckyGiant · Jul 28, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Iv had very good success with Shroud too in randoms, combo I use is
Unsupecting Strike > Shock > FS > Shroud > Twisted Fangs

Good thing is through the combo so long as they dont activate distortion etc there is no time to cast as theyre knocked down or shrouded. Only prob is exhaustion which can become a real pain if u dont use shock properly or need that extra one to get a monk and monks that use CoP I cant kill myself unless theyre bad :P

prodigy ming · Jul 28, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Great build, i like it alot more than the regular shock build

Spura · Jul 31, 2006, 08:55 AM // 08:55

http://www.gwkb.org/cBuild.php?mode=Show&ID=4750

nori nori · Jul 31, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I was expecting some heated debate over this build, but if everyone likes it I guess that's just as good.

DieInBasra · Aug 01, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

You can only use your spike once every 20 seconds, and you still haven't solved that fact you're a liability. Shadow Shroud is barely better then having a mesmer with distortion and blackout, and he'd be doing alot more then an almost "spike" with a huge recharge. You also are useless vs a monk because of cop, and again, a blackout mesmer would be just as good vs any other type of caster.

LordLucifer · Aug 01, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

well, he made a build thats "just as good as a blackout mesmer vs any other type of caster" with an assassin, i would call that a great compliment

*thumbs up*

Spura · Aug 01, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInBasra

You can only use your spike once every 20 seconds, and you still haven't solved that fact you're a liability. Shadow Shroud is barely better then having a mesmer with distortion and blackout, and he'd be doing alot more then an almost "spike" with a huge recharge. You also are useless vs a monk because of cop, and again, a blackout mesmer would be just as good vs any other type of caster.

Yea yea. But while using blackout that mesmer won't kill squat. My build does this to a caster and kills him. As it is clearly stated in my build, this is AB build and most monks in AB don't use CoP. Usually I take them out in one combo + few normal hits before the hex runs out.

Shroud of silence is pretty bad elite, and this is the best I can do with it. If you can do better, show me. All I can say to you telling me that there is better shutdown possible is : No sh*t Sherlock! That's like going into topic about Warrior's Endurance and telling people it is better to make R/W and use expertise for enegy management. If elite is crappy, I can't do miracles. And this build does pretty well when it comes to taking out all kinds of casters in AB, especially NPC monks. It has shutdown and ability to kill a target during those 10 sec of shutdown, but it ain't no cookie cutter.

Claymore · Aug 01, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Very Nice build, going to go cap shroud of silence tonight and give it a go.
Good job!

DieInBasra · Aug 01, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Well,spura, I was talking to the original build maker, but ok :\ I've played vs a build like yours in TA, btw.

Quote:

just as good as a blackout mesmer vs any other type of caster

I was talking purely about blackout vs shroud, not the rest of his bar. After that, a mesmer is much better.

Quote:

Shroud of silence is pretty bad elite, and this is the best I can do with it. If you can do better, show me. All I can say to you telling me that there is better shutdown possible is : No sh*t Sherlock! That's like going into topic about Warrior's Endurance and telling people it is better to make R/W and use expertise for enegy management. If elite is crappy, I can't do miracles. And this build does pretty well when it comes to taking out all kinds of casters in AB, especially NPC monks. It has shutdown and ability to kill a target during those 10 sec of shutdown, but it ain't no cookie cutter.

Play to win? if there are better options...use them?

Why give people builds that are actually pretty useless? Unless you don't want critques and are just playing around, in which case say so or don't get so defensive when someone says it sucks.

nori nori · Aug 02, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Hurrah, a proper flame. Thanks, DieInBasara. Begin counter-flame!

In regards to only being able to use the Iron Palm combo every 20 seconds, I challenge you to find an assassin spike of comperable power (in damage and conditions) that can be pulled off in significantly less time. Unfortunately, for the impatient, dealing with moderate recharge times is just another one of the aspects of playing the assassin effectively.

Admittedly, this build does not directly address the issue of assassins being burdens on healers. Whether or not you become a liability or an asset to your healer depends as much on your character construction as on your ability as a player. When I first started playing an assassin, I received many a, "WTF noob, stop dying," from the monk. Once I learned how to stay alive and pick targets, I started getting more, "Thank god we have a sin who knows wtf he is doing," and, "Gay sin go to hell," the latter coming from the other team, of course.

As for the whole "blackout vs. shroud of silence" issue, I submit that it is the same as comparing a saw to a machette i.e. similar functions, different applications. It is also worth mentioning a good blackout build cannot kill a competent monk solo either. In fact, a good blackout build cannot kill much of anything by itself. That is not to say that a blackout mesmer isn't a good build - I think it's great in the right context - but it requires too much coordination as far as RA and impromtu TA teams are concerned. Have fun calling your blackout on the monk as the ignorant warrior/ranger/poopslinger on your team chases down some ele/necro/whatever.

Finally, yes, CoP is a bitch, but there are ways around it. You can cast siphon speed, or use some condition causing skill from the optional slot on the monk first and try to bait the CoP out then quickly hit him with a shroud. Anyhow, a good monk won't be taken down by a single player, so the arguement of, "lol you can't take down a monk solo stupid" against any build is a moot point, IMO. It' like using 1v1 battles to determine that one build is better than another. That's like saying Priest Holmes could beat Peyton Manning in a 40 yard sprint, or Shaq could beat the shit out of Dwayne Wade. It's a team game, after all.

DieInBasra · Aug 02, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

In regards to only being able to use the Iron Palm combo every 20 seconds, I challenge you to find an assassin spike of comperable power (in damage and conditions) that can be pulled off in significantly less time. Unfortunately, for the impatient, dealing with moderate recharge times is just another one of the aspects of playing the assassin effectively.

Um, if by "play them effectively" you mean "only actually do damage every 20 seconds". Having a 20 second recharge on your ability to do damage, and a 30 second recharge on your ability to disrupt isn't to hot, I'm sorry. Any build like that isn't going to be great. Sure you can auto attack, but who? I guess it's a bit differant in a TA/RA type deal, I'm more used to GvG, but auto attacking there monk or even midline casters isn't going to get you very far, unless far is also dead, because it's equivelant to a monk running up to them, in terms of armour. A speed boost isn't going to get you out faster, because when people what you dead you're going to be laying down before then, due to the gale/shock/dev/bash that just hit you beforehand.

Quote:

Admittedly, this build does not directly address the issue of assassins being burdens on healers. Whether or not you become a liability or an asset to your healer depends as much on your character construction as on your ability as a player. When I first started playing an assassin, I received many a, "WTF noob, stop dying," from the monk. Once I learned how to stay alive and pick targets, I started getting more, "Thank god we have a sin who knows wtf he is doing," and, "Gay sin go to hell," the latter coming from the other team, of course.

The only way you're not being a burden on healers is if you're attacking midline-frontline charaters, and even midline, like I said, can be debated. Compare yourself to other classes who can do the same type of things before you call yourself a liability or an asset. A Hammer warrior can shutdown a monk for the duration of his spike as well, and his spike will do more damage and shut the monk down indefinitly for 6 second, not for 10 seconds maybe, as well as having more armour, and better self heal.

Quote:

As for the whole "blackout vs. shroud of silence" issue, I submit that it is the same as comparing a saw to a machette i.e. similar functions, different applications. It is also worth mentioning a good blackout build cannot kill a competent monk solo either. In fact, a good blackout build cannot kill much of anything by itself. That is not to say that a blackout mesmer isn't a good build - I think it's great in the right context - but it requires too much coordination as far as RA and impromtu TA teams are concerned. Have fun calling your blackout on the monk as the ignorant warrior/ranger/poopslinger on your team chases down some ele/necro/whatever.

A good blackout build can incapacitate a monk with relative ease. Re: Vin's Gale/BO mesmer, can take down a monk for 9 seconds every 15 with diversion on him for the remainder. Pretty good ratio, imo. And a good surge/burn/sow mesmer with BO as a side will do almost as much pressure damage as a warrior. Sure the pure DPS isn't high, but if you add in the energy drained, things get ugly. I don't really see how a mesmer with BO needs more co-ordiation then a Sin with Shroud. But really, anything works in RA as long as it has a bit of self healing,as the level of competition there is...non-existant? TA is a differant story, but if you're just doing it impromtu, I wouldn't except to win much, anyway.

Quote:

Finally, yes, CoP is a bitch, but there are ways around it. You can cast siphon speed, or use some condition causing skill from the optional slot on the monk first and try to bait the CoP out then quickly hit him with a shroud. Anyhow, a good monk won't be taken down by a single player, so the arguement of, "lol you can't take down a monk solo stupid" against any build is a moot point, IMO. It' like using 1v1 battles to determine that one build is better than another. That's like saying Priest Holmes could beat Peyton Manning in a 40 yard sprint, or Shaq could beat the shit out of Dwayne Wade. It's a team game, after all.

First of, what's with all these silly comparisons that really don't have much in common to what we're talking about? I know a good monk can't be beaten by a single player, but a good monk won't have a threatening hex on him for more then 2 seconds. In TA there's alot of hex removal in builds, so play to win. The monk will probably have hexbreaker, cop, and inspired, or at least the latter two, as well as off-monk hex removal. Saying it's a team game works both ways, and really, it will just end up in theory wars unless you want to post a full team build.

nori nori · Aug 03, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Ah, it seems we have wandered into the barren country of "I think vs you think." My apologies for propagating it, but at this point - since it seems you can see so many faults with my little build - can you offer some way of improving it? Because really, we can argue the shortcomings of any build until we wear the letterings off our keyboards but, as fun as it is, it doesn't do much to raise the level of gameplay amongst us assassin players. Perhaps I should've wrote, "More flames with the intent of improving the build, please."

Claymore · Aug 03, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

LOL Well said Nori!
Just for the record, I used a slight variation of your build last night against a SS Necro and destroyed him.